The Loophole within the Loophole of the Loopy Law

This article by John Ivison is noteworthy since he exposes serious asylum abuses in Canada – Budget officer finds illegal migrants entering via a ‘loophole within a loophole’.

It’s bad enough that the actual costs of illegal migration are a tremendous burden to the taxpayer. However on top of that we are now discovering that illegals are taking advantage of serious weaknesses within the system – thereby possibly threatening public safety:

This means a migrant can cross into Canada from the U.S. between official entry points, avoiding the Safe Third Country Agreement that would have otherwise made them ineligible…

Once a claim has been made, the migrant can access Canada’s generous welfare system as he or she navigates the asylum claims process that gives them multiple hearings and appeals. In the meantime, they can effectively sponsor other members of their family, who can then arrive as regular migrants — also avoiding the Safe Third Country Agreement.

Ivison goes on to explain how relatives being brought in by that illegal anchor person can extend way past immediate family members. You would think the government would take all steps necessary to resolve this problem. And yet they seem to be dragging their heels.

Of course, if the ultimate goal of this Trudeau government is to flood the country with “irregular” Liberal voters before October 21, 2019, then I suppose they would have very little incentive to deal effectively with the problem.

—————————————————————————————

Update:

Andrew Scheer is putting forward a motion to stop Canada from signing onto the UN Global Compact for Migration! Good for him. (h/t Cara in comments)

And Lorrie Goldstein speaks out:

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This entry was posted in Canadian Elections, Canadian Government, Canadian Politics, Immigration, Justin Liberals, Rule of Law. Bookmark the permalink.

78 Responses to The Loophole within the Loophole of the Loopy Law

  1. Greg says:

    I here Sussex Drive has some empty space, mostly between PMJT’s ears

    Liked by 1 person

  2. Miles Lunn says:

    On a side note the Tories won by a landslide in Leeds-Grenville-Thousand Islands-Rideau Lakes. This is off course a very safe Conservative riding so no surprise here, but nice to see a strong win. Still the Liberal vote held up remarkably well and the NDP vote absolutely cratered, which I think in more competitive ridings this is where our biggest danger lies as usually 40% is sufficient, but with the NDP being so weak, I am not so sure that is the case anymore. Mind you considering how Jagmeet Singh is not well known, its quite possible once the campaign begins the party will see their numbers improve. After all Horwath had terrible numbers before the campaign, but improved on the campaign trail. The good news is he is so far back, there is almost no chance of him leapfrogging over us.

    Like

    • joannebly says:

      Glad to see the CPC kept that byelection!

      Like

      • Miles Lunn says:

        Eric Grenier has a good analysis on this (obviously one should never reach too much into by-election) https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/grenier-leeds-grenville-byelection-1.4931475 . Otherwise Conservatives are getting the support they normally need to win, the problem we face is the Liberals are too since the NDP has cratered and that is mostly benefitting the Liberals. Essentially if these results were replicated across the country, the Tories would win back many of those who voted Tory in 2011, but switched to the Liberals in 2015, but the Liberals would hold much of their support by picking up many who voted NDP last time around. Otherwise I think if the NDP doesn’t rebound, we need to aim for mid 40s instead of just 40%. Obviously in this riding where we normally top the 50% mark that is not an issue, but in the 905 belt where the Tories routinely get over 40% but seldom over 50%, NDP support matters a lot. Harper in 2015 only got a few points below what Ford did in 2018 in the 905 belt, the big difference was Ford had the splits, Harper didn’t. Thus that is why I have pushed so hard to appeal to middle of the road voters since with Trudeau eating up the NDP we have to broaden our appeal even further than if we had a stronger NDP. The good news is Trudeau has moved far enough left there is lots of space in the middle, which was not the case under the Chretien/Martin Liberals.

        Like

        • gabbyinqc says:

          “Thus that is why I have pushed so hard to appeal to middle of the road voters since with Trudeau eating up the NDP we have to broaden our appeal even further than if we had a stronger NDP.”
          But, by the same token, “broadening our appeal” may alienate some conservatives who may see conservative principles being watered down to appease leftist ideologues. Watering down one’s position for political gain is a form of crass huckterism, IMO.

          Please understand, I’m not advocating adopting extreme positions on issues. What I have always advocated is a clear communications policy to ensure electors understand where the CPC stands on issues. That includes setting the record straight, as Mr. Harper recently did here https://twitter.com/stephenharper/status/1068998427105607680 — even if that points out “fake news” is not solely an American problem.

          Like

          • joannebly says:

            Yes it’s a tricky balance. Good on Stephen Harper for setting the record straight on that fake news.

            Like

          • Miles Lunn says:

            I think it is important to have principles, but how I see things is first look at what is ideal. Then figure out close can you realistically get to that realizing moving in the right direction even if not fully to one’s liking is better than moving in the wrong direction. Otherwise many here may not care for the Martin/Chretien government, but policies like that would still be an improvement over what we have now. Canadians tend to be fairly risk averse I’ve found so radical change is a tougher sell here than in other countries. We tend to be more incrementalists.

            Like

  3. Liz J says:

    Trudeau is overplaying his feminist shtick, he’s obsessed, almost scary.
    He has apparently pledged $50M of our dollars through a tweet to someone I never heard of, Trevor Noah who hosts The daily Show. It’s to support women and girls around the globe.
    Where does he get the authority to toss our money out on his own without consultation, is there not a process?

    Like

  4. Liz J says:

    Is there any accounting required as to where this money Trudeau decides to toss out actually ends up?

    Like

  5. Liz J says:

    Who is in charge of ringing the gong? He’s starting to show his, well, let’s be kind and say his not too smarts and the media is picking up on it….there may be hope.

    Like

  6. Cara says:

    Back to your new thread on immigration Joanne.
    People forget that under Stephen Harper we had a very disciplined and orderly immigration system that saw things running smoothly. His government made some slight changes but by and large we trusted it to do the right thing for this country.

    The Trudeau government has played fast and loose with it all. We’re now rewarding illegals, have loopholes so large that are failing us and because of Trudeau’s focus on getting votes rather than doing what’s right he’s losing (if not lost) the trust of the people.

    Scheer and company need to continually bring this to the forefront. Although, there are so many screw-ups, inquiries and investigations it’s probably hard for them to focus on just ONE.

    Like

  7. Cara says:

    Michelle Rempel was live.
    12 minutes ago ·
    Follow
    Tomorrow, Andrew Scheer will introduce a motion in the House of Commons to ensure Canada does NOT sign onto the UN Global Compact for Migration. We need your help – SHARE this!! Phone a Liberal MP and get them to do the right thing and support it!!! SHARE!

    Like

  8. Liz J says:

    There’s immigration and wrong immigration. Immigration is a serious issue, it can make or break a country. Liberals are streaming them in with no plan as to how they will find employment, that’s left to us, housing, clothing they need and food from our food banks.

    Diversity is not our strength when those who come settle in enclaves, that’s the face of Multiculturalism, diversity and division. We stand for nothing.

    Like

  9. gabbyinqc says:

    RE: the “loopy law”
    I wrote this comment at another blog back in August when Max Bernier was being criticized for his tweet regarding “too much diversity”. I repeat it here to explain my stance on the issue of immigration. I wish people would stop conflating “immigrants” — those who line up, seeking permission to enter the country legally — with “refugees/asylum seekers” whose claims about the danger they are fleeing may not be true & practically impossible to verify.

    Here is that comment:
    “I am an immigrant. A real immigrant, not the mythical one included in “progressive” speak when they declaim “We’re ALL immigrants.” I arrived in Canada, age 11, with my parents & my siblings — unheralded, with no reception committee waiting to greet us with flowers, parkas, or any other piece of Canadiana that might help us feel at home. Before being accepted as prospective Canadian residents, we had to undergo health checks in our country of origin & my parents probably had to provide some proof of being able to support our family. At that age, I did not pay attention to such details. There must have been plenty of paperwork to fill out.

    Once in Canada, we learned two languages, albeit not perfectly, adapted to a different way of doing things, wishing not to stand out as being too different. After many years of hard work and after opening a small business, my parents finally decided to become Canadian citizens. Being underage, I could have become a citizen too, included in my parents’ naturalization but I decided to wait until I was able to make my own decision. During the interview with the immigration judge, I was asked a hypothetical question: Which country would I side with if a war erupted between Canada & my country of origin? My answer? That’s like asking me to choose between my mother and my father.** I’m glad my answer did not disqualify me.
    (**Addendum: that may sound like divided loyalties, but it was a truthful answer, especially since my country of origin was/is no threat to Canada)

    Why the long-winded family history? Because, as a conservative, I’m sick and tired of conservatives being portrayed as anti-immigrants. I’m sure there are other conservatives whose experience is similar to mine. We came, we adapted, we maintained our own traditions in our homes but did not demand that “the system” adapt to our own particular needs. We left whatever battles we fought back in the old country behind us, even if we looked back with receding waves of nostalgia. We used whatever opportunities were open to us to make a better life for ourselves and contributed to the Canadian fabric simply by obeying its laws, paying our taxes, and yes … we contributed bits of our own culture for other Canadians to enjoy if they so chose.

    Maxime Bernier’s tweets have been interpreted as appealing to an anti-immigrant, bigoted, xenophobic conservative base — read extreme right-wing, alt-right, white supremacist base. Why is expressing concern about some new arrivals to Canada, about their seeming inability and/or unwillingness to adapt to the mores of Canadian life a censurable offence? Why is pointing out the Liberal government’s inability in facilitating newcomers’ adaptation and even encouraging their apartness an affront to the Canadian way? And why are commentators on this topic conflating legal immigrants with asylum seekers, bogus and real, as well as refugees, also bogus and real?”

    Like

    • Cara says:

      “I wish people would stop conflating “immigrants” — those who line up, seeking permission to enter the country legally — with “refugees/asylum seekers” whose claims about the danger they are fleeing may not be true & practically impossible to verify.”

      An important point Gabby for sure. I give the opposition credit for continuing to make that distinction in their statements and questions to the government. What’s also clear is the Trudeau government and some media’s ability to purposely muddy those distinctions.

      Your post from the other blog you posted this to is as relevant now as ever IMO.

      That the public is being asked by Trudeau and co. to accept “illegal” immigration is wrong and threatens the very good and trusting nature of those seeking to enter the country legally with every intention of working to fit into their new country while maintaining their own heritage, culture etc.

      Illegal immigration is grossly unfair to those who obey our laws, which up until this government was fair and manageable.

      Liked by 1 person

    • joannebly says:

      Great discussion here! I agree that the Liberals and much of the media are trying to paint conservatives as anti-immigrant whereas that’s the farthest thing from the truth. It’s all about following the law and a fair process.

      As Gabby points out, many if not most Canadians are immigrants or descendants of immigrants. And we want Canada to continue to be a safe country. Why would anyone want otherwise unless they had sinister motives?

      Liked by 1 person

  10. Liz J says:

    A song from 1944 “Baby It’s Cold Outside” is now struck from the playlists of our radio stations, it’s offensive to the sensibilities of, well let’s take a guess…MeToo?
    Another sign of sheer madness. It’s another slap at the males in our lives. It will get worse if we put up with it.
    Trudeau has just insulted construction workers, getting nuttier by the day with his over the top nonsense on feminism. What’s really behind this craziness has to be all about politics, Liberals believe Trudeau will draw the female vote. What else could be behind this cockeyed nonsense?
    I love the males in my family, Trudeau will never get my vote.

    We should also fault the media for playing this game but they have been bought with $595,000,000
    of our money, they are owned.

    Like

  11. Liz J says:

    We need to also be aware what else is at play here, we are being managed more and more by Big Brother getting into every facet of our lives. This is taking away our freedom of choice across the board. Heading into 2019 1984 is looming.

    Like

  12. Miles Lunn says:

    Here is an interesting take from a left wing newspaper on five risks Trudeau faces: https://www.straight.com/news/1157166/5-reasons-why-justin-trudeau-and-his-fellow-liberals-cannot-be-complacent-about-next . The first one I am bit skeptical about as most polls I’ve seen show more support for the pipeline than not, nonetheless in some places such as the North Shore here its possible this might create the right splits for the Tories to come up the middle. However two through five make a lot of sense.

    Like

    • Liz J says:

      Possibly one of Trudeau’s dumbest utterances saying he is jealous of immigrants because:
      “You chose this country. This is your country more than it is for others because we take it for granted”. Who are “others”?
      It sure as hell isn’t me, that really goes high on the stupidity scale for comments. He owes us an apology and all those who fought for it. It’s so offensive to all of us who love our country.
      Any idea how we can call him to task for this and make an issue of it? Grrrrrrrrr!

      Liked by 1 person

  13. Cara says:

    Here’s another issue where the LIberals and left-leaning media told Canadians that Scheer was wrong to pursue it and ask questions. That list is growing. Liberals BLINK…….again. Must be an election year.
    https://www.nationalnewswatch.com/2018/12/05/liberals-drop-contentious-anti-abortion-test-for-summer-jobs-funding/?fbclid=IwAR1OdAN38EoLOkz19qDxjolPuY0Ojd12bJgt8s7wPDG8ERJe2lwZ3fwWtFw#.XAipy2hKiCp

    Like

  14. Liz J says:

    I’d like to know why we have a Budget Officer. I seems to me the Liberals show them no respect and brush them off. They do not accept their findings, just brush them off and do whatever they please. The Wynne government is a prime example, the Trudeau managers will be the same. they will spend for political gain, we pay the debt.

    Like

  15. Greg says:

    Looks like Canada voted against a resolution to condemn Hamas yesterday. The motion was brought forward by Niki Haley of the US. I am truly disgusted by the liberals.

    Like

  16. Liz J says:

    Trudeau meeting with First Ministers could get interesting. Will some walk out over the carbon tax?
    What other options do they have dealing with something that will hurt us all?

    Given our Prime Minister, his handlers, his appointed environment minister, will not listen to reason on anything to do with their extreme fixation on all things environmental, choices are limited.
    How dumb is it to put in a carbon tax at the coldest time of our year? How can they expect people to not notice the higher cost of everything we need to survive and still win an election?

    Like

  17. Cara says:

    Here’s a column by Brian Lilley from the Sun that illustrates just how quickly the left and their media friendlies are to swarm an issue once the Conservatives take a stand and show leadership far above what our current PM demonstrates.

    https://torontosun.com/opinion/columnists/lilley-un-global-compact-for-migration-is-bad-for-canadas-sovereignty-as-scheer-says?fbclid=IwAR3G95KZKRr1rKJbarNhQsrcFyk6jKstublucPuVad8KD4EkLHFobKuxOb0

    Like

    • Liz J says:

      It’s a done deal, Trudeau and company will sign. We are free to yell from the hills all we want but we have nothing at our disposal to stop it. We are already seeing the remake of this country in progress as we sit by and whimper. That’s what we get when we vote for fancy socks up front with the agenda driven crew behind the curtain.
      Sit back and enjoy.

      Like

    • Liz J says:

      We need to remember the Trudeau cabal are already allowing illegal immigrants, they simply tagged them as “Irregulars”. Anyone coming into this sovereign country before going through the proper process covering all aspects required for citizenship is an illegal no matter what they call it. Signing this pact will be used as an excuse to make it even worse.

      Like

  18. Cara says:

    “David Akin
    11 mins ·

    A petition to Parliament to de-register Unifor for the partisan political activity of the leaders of this union. Unifor represents 13,000 media workers and journalists (including me). I’m on the record already declaring that Unifor should cease partisan political activity as it has great potential to hurts the businesses which employ its members.”

    https://petitions.ourcommons.ca/en/Petition/Details?Petition=e-1950&fbclid=IwAR1zBHAjIwu5xYX0Xyvll2fEQ7P9Isw9PIvUVV6iDKOGZlsBx-vZ3lqeCSI

    Liked by 1 person

      • Cara says:

        I absolutely respect Akin’s own declaration and only hope that more journalists follow his lead. Although I have my doubts that many will, fearing biting the hand that is going to eventually feed them.

        If this fails I think it would be very important for all consumers of news in this country to know which journalists and media outlets tow the Unifor line and which will not….giving us a choice of who/which to tune into and which to turn off.

        Like

  19. Miles Lunn says:

    Premier’s conference just ended and interesting how things have changed since Trudeau was elected. When he won in 2015, asides from Brad Wall, Trudeau largely had friendly premiers. In Newfoundland you had a Red Tory premier who didn’t get along well with Harper, but a month later replaced by a Liberal, thus all Atlantic Premiers being Liberal. In Quebec a Liberal premier whom despite disagreeing occasionally generally got along well. A Liberal premier in Ontario who saw eye to eye with Trudeau. An NDP premier in Manitoba and Alberta who largely shared Trudeau’s progressive agenda. A BC Liberal one who may have not shared Trudeau’s fiscal policies, but at least on the pipeline file was cooperative and largely shared the same viewpoint and more importantly wouldn’t stand in the way of a pipeline being built which was essential if Notley was to have a chance.

    Fast forward to today and we have now still three Liberal premiers in Atlantic Canada, but a PC one in New Brunswick who has joined in the fight against the carbon tax. A Quebec one who maybe cooperative on the environment, but on immigration wants to reduce levels, the exact opposite of Trudeau and also wants the feds to pay for the costs of illegal immigrants. In Ontario you have one who is the polar opposite of Trudeau and opposes him on just about everything. In Manitoba you have a PC one who was willing to be cooperative at first when most premiers were on the political left, but as more conservative ones won, he has joined them in opposing the carbon tax. Brad Wall is gone, but Scott Moe is from the same party and takes the same position. Rachel Notley frustrated by lack of action on the pipeline is starting to distance herself from Trudeau, never mind in six months time Jason Kenney will likely be premier and much like Doug Ford who is also the polar opposite of Trudeau. BC has a premier blocking the pipeline thus making Notley’s remote chance of re-election that much more remote. Off course not a total surprise as Canadians tend to like balance so it was probably only a matter of time before the progressive dominance at all levels ended and you started seeing conservatives winning at one level. Ironically the US with midterms went the opposite way but again it seems common across the globe for subnational governments to often be of a different political stripe than the party in power.

    Like

    • Cara says:

      All I see is a waste of taxpayer’s money with very little to show for it except photo ops for the PM so he can charm voters into believing he’s actually accomplishing things.
      Will they buy it?

      Like

  20. Miles Lunn says:

    I also have a blog on this https://afiscalconservativepointofview.com/2018/12/08/i-support-the-un-global-compact-on-migration/ and so I suspect most here will disagree. If you want to comment on this though please do it on my blog, not this one. I am totally open to debate here, but I see the UN Global Compact on Migration as more simply cooperation and goals not anything binding thus why while it has elements I don’t agree with, I realize no agreement will be perfect and it is better to work with others on this, than isolate ourselves.

    Like

    • Cara says:

      You have got to be kidding Miles! “Isolate ourselves”? From what? Letting an unelected UN call our immigration shots for us? Leverage a big-spending PM into dumping more of our money on their schemes? No thanks.

      I read your blog post. How many political personas do you maintain 🙂 Interesting.

      Have you seen the nations who have wisely NOT signed on to this? We’re not “isolating ourselves” in as much as making Canada the outlier among other nations.

      All of them want safe and more humane lives for immigrants/refugees. Aren’t we already treating them with compassion and care?

      “It is the exact sort of ephemeral wisp of nothingness that will prompt the Trudeau government to fall all over itself in its eagerness to sing and then incessantly tweet about.” (NP editorial).

      “This issue has been a slow-moving train wreck for the Liberals, and it’s something they need to fix before it completely guts popular support for immigration, which has already begun to show signs of strain under this government.”

      “Why worry about that when yo can just fly your ministerial entourage to another UN party to toast to a pointless agreement while loudly celebrating your government’s compassion on social media? Tweets make governing so much easier.”

      Like

      • Cara says:

        P.S. – Being the newer kid on this block I’m not trying to be disrespectful of Miles. I know all POV’s are welcome I’m just not sure. Hoping to take some time off for Christmas and away from the computer, politics and media this coming week.
        All of our political woes will still be here in a couple of weeks…….only magnified heading into an election year.
        Hoping you all have a Merry Christmas!

        Like

        • joannebly says:

          Well Miles did ask that anyone who disagreed with his blog post to discuss it there.

          In any case, Merry Christmas Cara! Sometimes it’s good to get away from politics for a while.

          Like

          • Miles Lunn says:

            Agree it is sometimes good. Anyone who wants to comment on this is free to do so. I should note that Chris Alexander who was immigration minister in the Harper government has come out in favour so I think this seems to divide between more your traditional Tories and more populist flavor. Certainly in Europe where you usually have more than one party on the right, you generally have the more moderate for it while more conservative one against it. Off course in Canada since we use FTFP (which I support) instead of PR (which most European countries use) we need to have a much bigger tent and there are going to some disagreements. In UK, except on confidence votes, you almost always have some MPs who break party ranks, its not like Canada where everybody follows the party and I kind of wish we allowed more of that here.

            Like

          • joannebly says:

            Well personally I have no problem with legal, responsible immigration here in Canada. I do have a big problem with illegal migration. And my biggest problem of all is with the UN, which keeps pushing global control. There that’s my rant. 😉

            Liked by 1 person

          • Cara says:

            I understand totally Joanne. I guess my feeling was prompted by the fact that I felt Mile’s blog post seems written for a different audience than his posts here. Nothing wrong with that. Just an observation. He predicted disagreement. He wasn’t wrong with me 🙂

            Like

  21. Liz J says:

    Well, we had to know anyone not in favour of UN immigration pact is racist according to Ahmed Hussen and Justin Trudeau. That should silence all who don’t feel their borders will be secure against illegal/irregulars whatever those two individuals want to call them….right?

    Like

  22. Liz J says:

    BTW, where is Anne from SW Ontario? Miss her comment, hope all is well with her?

    Liked by 1 person

  23. Miles Lunn says:

    In Quebec, the CAQ just picked up Roberval, Philippe Couillard’s former riding. Not a surprise as its heavily Francophone and considering the CAQ won most other similar ridings, it makes sense they would win this. Francois Legault will be interesting to watch as while not a Big C Conservative, the CAQ is a small c conservative party so definitely will be interesting to see what he does as government and how Quebec responds and perhaps maybe we can learn what might work in Quebec.

    Like

  24. Liz J says:

    We have a government dividing the country and we need to wake up our Opposition to act on our behalf, not on what they think is politically safe for them. Take a page from Trump, he has hit the right buttons, ordinary people can relate to telling it as it is, they want truth in power not snake oil pushers.

    A basic in the recipe for good governance is common sense which seems to be MIA on many fronts in Canada today.
    Socially, another basic missing is shame, it’s anything goes across the board, no shame, no guilt.

    Of course we have tearful apologies on our behalf from Justin on issues we had no part in, cannot undo. There is no compensation that will ever be enough. We cannot meaningfully apologize for the actions of others from past history. We can talk about them and work to ensure they are not repeated but it was a different time. We have different issues today, especially among our Native peoples which proves we haven’t really found the answer to even today’s problems, they are still milking issues from the past. Governments toss money freely but without accountability which changes nothing. Cooperation and respect is not a one way street.

    Apologies for the ranting, just looking for common sense to break out…it would be a nice Christmas miracle.

    Like

  25. Liz J says:

    Omar Khadr, who we made a multimillionaire, is now going to court to get his passport back so he can travel. It will happen, bet on it.

    Like

  26. Anne in swON says:

    Joanne, I have followed your posts through your days with “Joanne’s Journey” and the original “Blue Like You” through to the present day “Blue Like You 2”. I have always felt a sense of belonging when commenting on your posts and have enjoyed the friendly exchange of views with the old regulars I have come to regard as friends though we have never met in person. Some of us are progressive conservatives and some hail from the opposite end of the conservative spectrum. We have always felt comfortable expressing and being who we really are. That no longer holds true for me. I have been told in no uncertain terms that my views are ‘hard right’ or ‘far right’ and that people from my side of the spectrum should be ‘marginalized’. That last bit was posted by one of your newer commenters on that individual’s personal blog to which your readers were directed. The exact quote is, “I would like to see our Conservatives return to its Progressive Conservative roots and marginalize the Reform elements.” This kind of thinking is the wedge that will eventually tear the CPC apart should it continue unchecked. The seams are already frayed. Rather than contribute to the escalation of the the descent (and dissent) and to help keep my blood pressure in check I have decided to step away from the fray (excuse the pun) for a while. Thank you, Joanne, for your gracious hospitality over the past decade or so. It has been a pleasure and a delight to have interacted with so many wonderful people. Stay well all. Merry Christmas! Anne in swON

    Liked by 1 person

    • Liz J says:

      Merry Christmas Anne!

      Liked by 1 person

    • gabbyinqc says:

      My two cents’ worth on this: “I have been told in no uncertain terms that my views are ‘hard right’ or ‘far right’ and that people from my side of the spectrum should be ‘marginalized’.”
      Don’t allow anyone discourage you from expressing your point of view, even if expressing it seems pointless at times, akin to hitting your head against a brick wall. There will always be some who agree with you and some who will not — that’s just the way it is. Just let any criticism roll off you like the proverbial water off a duck’s back.

      I hope you reconsider.

      Liked by 1 person

      • Cara says:

        I hope you reconsider too Anne. I too am from swOnt. and feel as you do.
        I live in the ONE riding in my part of Ontario that went NDP in the provincial election but am swamped by Liberals in my town. Rurally we’re Conservative with both a federal and provincial Conservative MP and MPP.
        I find Joanne’s group most welcoming. I challenge Miles because I’m confused by him. I confess to not knowing his story and only go by Google searches where he describes himself as a “Liberal Blogger who comes from the Classic side of the Liberal Party of Canada.” That he’s ok with me disagreeing and questioning is a testament to this place and his welcoming us to do so. Being newer to this place I don’t know his story but that too seems ok.

        Like

        • Liz J says:

          What is the “Classic side of the Liberal Party of Canada”? I don’t think any of us here could identify with that, I can’t identify with Red Tories, I imagine most of them voted Liberal when Stephen Harper had the nerve to successfully form the Conservative Party of Canada. It pinched their feelings, they needed that “Progressive” side to be half Liberal. In their minds they think it will give them more success at the polls, Conservative to them means far right and they use it as a scare tactic.
          I may be off base here but I have no time for mish mash, stand for what you believe and be clear on it. Do not pose as something you are not, it’s dishonest.

          Like

          • Miles Lunn says:

            I am in some sense you could say a classical liberal and classical liberalism has almost zero relation with the modern Liberal party. Classical liberalism is about smaller government, otherwise fiscally conservative but socially liberal, so that would describe a Wilfred Laurier Liberal, not a Trudeau Liberal who is more of a social democrat than liberal. I am member of the BC Liberal party, but the BC Liberals are quite different from the federal Liberals. I joined back in 2000 when Gordon Campbell was leader and he took BC from having the highest tax rate in the country to one of the lowest, successfully balanced the budget, reduced the power of public sector unions, and made BC a more attractive place to invest. Not things that I would describe about Justin Trudeau.

            As for being a Red Tory, I am on the political spectrum around the same spot as Brian Mulroney so not as conservative as Harper, Kenney, Scheer, or Ford, but to the right of Stanfield, Clark, Davis, and John Tory. The party has lurched a fair bit to the right since the 70s and while parties should change with times, I don’t think going too far to the right is the right thing either in terms of electability or even what I support. I prefer a politician who looks at each policy on its own merit and if a good policy adopts it and if bad avoids it and what side of the spectrum it comes from is a secondary not primary consideration. Otherwise best governments, adopt the best policies from both the left and the right. Now I am not suggesting all Reformers have to leave the Tories, but I do think the party needs to do more to appeal to Red Tories/Blue Liberals, after all about 30% of Canadians are conservative, while another 10% are swing voters and if you only get 30% you remain in opposition, if you get the extra 10% you win a majority. As mentioned earlier and even Scheer has alluded to this, the Liberals have under Trudeau swung so far to the left that I think there is lots of room to woo over not just Red Tories, but even Blue Liberals who don’t like his tax and spend policies. Also when comparing internationally, I would be more comfortable in the British Tories than the US Republicans and I tend to see Canadian conservatism as having British not American roots but off course evolving in its own distinctive manner.

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          • Cara says:

            Don’t take my word for it please. Do your own searches. You’ll likely feel different than I do.
            I don’t like to be played with by someone who described himself as a staunch defender of the LPOC, a B.C. Liberal (which according to some could mean conservative).
            I felt that the piece Miles was directing us to on his blog was meant for a Liberal audience. Here, Miles is contributing to a Conservative audience.
            That said, and as Joanne cautions us, everyone is welcome, and Miles does offer a different perspective and sometimes in line with the Liberal MSM.

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          • Miles Lunn says:

            To answer Cara’s question, yes I was a supporter of the federal Liberals at one point, but if you look at the date it was 2007 which is over a decade ago. While this is suppose to be anonymous, it might as well reveal my whole political history so everything is clear. If you read the part on my viewpoint it says “A viewpoint from an independent minded classical liberal who believes in the values of individual freedom and smaller government. An opinionated blog who is not afraid to tell it like he sees it”. I thought individual freedom and smaller government where things Tories by and large believed in? Yes I believe there are limits and I don’t support cutting the size of government to the degree Bernier does, but that is more as I’ve aged I realize you can only move the needle so much at once. Anyways my background

            – Joined the BC Liberals in 2000 and have always supported them since.
            – At that time the main problem was the reckless provincial NDP government so I was more focused on provincial than federal politics
            – Voted Progressive Conservative federally in 2000 and joined the Progressive Conservative party in 2003 when Joe Clark stepped down. I supported Scott Brison that time.
            – Reluctantly voted in favour of the merger and remained a Conservative member.
            – Quit the Conservatives in 2005 over their opposition to same sex marriage (note the party now supports it so seemed more a generational thing in retrospect).
            – Joined the Liberals in 2006 after their defeat hoping to shape the rebuilding
            – Left the federal Liberals in 2009 and last time I voted Liberal federally was 2008
            – Lived in Toronto from 2006-2017 and voted PC provincially all three times
            – Voted for Rob Ford in 2010, but John Tory in 2014
            – Voted Conservative federally in 2011 and was happy they won a majority
            – Felt they overstayed their welcome and we needed a change, so voted for a small independent in 2015
            – Joined the Conservatives in 2017, supported Michael Chong, while Lisa Raitt was my second choice and Erin O’Toole third
            – Joined the BC Liberals upon returning to BC and supported Michael Lee for leader (note he comes from a Progressive Conservative background and helped Kim Campbell’s campaign in 1993, while of his co-chairs one was a federal liberal and one a federal conservative).

            I can say unequovically and as the blog on my link shows, I do not support Justin Trudeau. The Liberals under Martin/Chretien were a lot more centrist so easy for a Red Tory or Blue Liberal to support them, but Trudeau much like Wynne is more NDP lite so no way I could vote for him. The only provinces I would vote Liberal are BC and in the last election Quebec (I liked Philippe Couillard, but also like Legault and Couillard actually made spending cuts and balanced the budget, something you won’t see from Trudeau).

            For me, I am not attached to any party, instead I look at the policies and as parties shift their policies I may change which one I support. I should note there are some who were federal Liberals much more recently who are now supportive of us. Leona Asilev joined not too long ago and why rightfully welcomed her with open arms just as I hope we would with any other federal Liberal who feel Trudeau has shifted too much to the left. Paul Szabo put up a PC lawn sign this past June while if you read Dan McTeague’s tweets I doubt he supports Trudeau, certainly opposes the carbon tax. Stephen LeDrew who is the Liberal Party president when Chretien was PM from his commentary in the National Post seems pretty harsh on the Liberals though not sure which party he supports today but wouldn’t be shocked if he voted Conservative, but again don’t know. Hope this clears everything up.

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    • joannebly says:

      Thank you for your thoughtful reply to our concern about what happened to you, Anne!
      I join Gabby in asking your to reconsider. On the other hand if you need a break from all this I can totally understand as I often feel that way myself.

      I believe the line with which you took issue was a generalized opinion by that person and not a direct attack on yourself. If there were a direct personal attack I would take action by warning and or blocking that individual. Always please bring that to my attention if it happens. Thanks!

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  27. Miles Lunn says:

    Anybody here about the PBO’s recent deficit projection. It is now $30 billion. I think since the economy and taxes has traditionally been the conservative strong point we should really focus on this. Especially with our growth being at 3% since if we go into a recession (which we are overdue for) it will get a lot worse.

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  28. Miles Lunn says:

    Somehow suspect a lot of environmentalists on the left won’t be happy about this https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/tasker-pro-pipeline-first-nations-c-48-1.4941165 . To be fair First Nations have always had a wide variety of viewpoints, but many contrary to what media says are pro-pipeline as they know it means more jobs in their communities and will help reduce poverty.

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  29. joannebly says:

    Just a little heads-up here that I will be assuming major grandparenting duties for the next several days starting tomorrow but plan to check in every once in a while. I will be counting on you guys to keep me current with the latest news! Thanks. 🙂

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  30. Liz J says:

    I know it’s end of year and all but I do wish the Conservatives would stop making calls for donations in December, it’s simply not a good time for people busy preparing for and trying to enjoy the special season among family and friends.
    After getting a third call begging I get nasty, tell them I’m a Grinch when it comes to political donations this time of year and if they call again they’ll be lucky to get my vote. Of course they will get my vote, the alternative is not an option for me, stupidity and proven incompetence are already doing harm to the country.

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  31. joannebly says:

    Sorry to have to do this but we’re having a family crisis on the home-front so I’ll have to shut down comments for a while. Thanks for your understanding and I hope you all have a very happy and peaceful Christmas.

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